Worldwide interest over plan to transform city-centre gardens

By ryan crighton

Published: 21/04/2011

Architects from throughout the world are already eyeing up the chance to transform the centre of Aberdeen through the City Garden Project.

More than 1,000 people – mainly from the UK, America and Italy – have visited the new website set up to launch the international design competition for the city’s Union Terrace Gardens.

The internet page, which went live on Tuesday, has also prompted interest from as far away as Syria, Hong Kong, Japan, Vietnam and Lebanon.

Aberdeen City Council, development body Acsef and philanthropist Sir Ian Wood want to create a “green and vibrant heart” for the city centre by raising the garden and covering over the Denburn dual carriageway and adjacent railway line.

The design contest, led by Malcolm Reading Consultants, will involve seven blueprints for the historic sunken gardens being drawn up over the summer.

Last night, Mr Reading said he believes the world’s top architects and landscape experts would all be interested in the “rare chance” to transform a city like Aberdeen.

“The opportunity to change a major European city is very unusual for an architect, and as a result we expect to get a lot of interest from all over the world – which can only be a benefit for Aberdeen,” he said.

“It is an interesting site because it has obviously grown rather haphazardly over the years.

“The park itself was created as a pleasure garden, but what you have now is a dual carriageway, a railway line and a number of busy roads surrounding the site.

“It could be a wonderful asset because there would not be much like this in any European cities – a space which is truly for visitors and citizens.

“Every project we do is unique and we tend to choose the ones which are more unusual, and that was why we were fascinated by this.”

Mr Reading expects around 150 teams to register an interest in the project before June 13, when the entries will be whittled down to seven for stage two of the competition.

Each team must include an urban designer, architect, structural, civil and services engineers, landscape architect and also a cost consultant.

The seven shortlisted teams will be briefed and asked to produce a concept design.

They will also have to prove they can deliver the project on time and on budget.

Their entries will be reviewed by a technical panel and a final jury will conduct interviews before a winner is announced in December.

Mr Reading said he was well aware of the controversy surrounding the project, but believed that when the people of the north-east saw the final designs they would see the benefits.

“This sort of project is very difficult to get people to believe in, but it is transformational,” he said.

“You can’t do something to a city without some controversy.

“What hasn’t been offered to people so far is a vision of what it could be. That’s what the competition is going to provide, so people can judge that.

“Our experience is that the competition brings people together. It can have a very powerful and positive effect on the outcome.”

Reader's Comments

How can any person, including politicians, think is allright to ignore the wishes of thousands based on the opinion of very few and not to be morally ashamed, is beyond a rational comprehension. But after Clegg sold the Lib/Dem for a bowl of lentils, sorry promises, I expect anything from them, even Scott public denial the local ones are in anyway related to the southeners.
Vincent McDee
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The World is being asked "what do you think the centre of Aberdeen should look like?" Those of us who live in the city are being ignored however. It's a disgrace.
mike shepherd
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1,000 visitors in 2 days - is this not a rather paltry number given the scale of the PR effort to date?
Richard Pelling
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The PR team are missing a trick here. I watched Fraser Denholm's film the other day and that is the best bit of PR for this project I've seen to date, get it out on general release as soon as possible. Well done Mike and Fraser you must be closet CGP supporters after all.
Sasha M
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As international controversy continues to grow over MRC's handling of the Glasgow School of Art extension project, any scheme involving Mr. Reading is bound to attract attention. I trust that a fully balanced piece on the goings on in Glasgow will be forthcoming in this esteemed journal. There's more to working at a newspaper than churning PR - its called journalism.
Richard Pelling
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All the usual pathetic rhetoric from Mike Shepherd and his croanies.
Joe Bloggs
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Joe, nice post. "Pathetic rhetoric", a very pleasant start to the day, and cronies doesn't have an "a" so you might have to resort to other, easier to spell insults, as the day progresses. Thanks for a valuable contribution to the discussion, Joe. Always good to see that CSP supporters are on the money when it comes to manners, and having a brilliantly argued point.
Richard Fraser
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By the way, this press release is seemingly about the excellence of MR Consultancy's SEO strategy. I'm not sure how that's news but goodness they're setting expectations rather high early on, aren't they?
Richard Fraser
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Expectations are high now that the competition is underway. The prospect of transforming a city with a quality design combining high tech engineering and creative urban design will attract the top names. It will be an interesting year.
Jock W
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Jock the prospect you raise is, indeed tantalising. However, it would cost a deal more than the £140m ceiling currently being quoted, and it isn't possible under the highly restricting parameters that are a condition of the £50m pledge. Jock, supposing a leading architect came up with a magnificent scheme that delivered a revamped gardens, a square at St Nics, a pedestrianised Union St, Golden Square free of cars, etc etc? All possible with £140m but it's no allowed by the conditions placed on the £50m pledge because a massive amount of that money will be needed to excavate Union Terrace Gardens and insert the 3 or 4 storey building that will provide the "miniumum 2.5 acres of covered space".
Richard Fraser
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Well, I may have to rethink my opposition to the plans, because as Malcolm Reading says "The park itself was created as a pleasure garden, but what you have now is a dual carriageway, a railway line and a number of busy roads surrounding the site." I can only imagine that his statement means that the roads, dual carriageway and railway line will no longer surround the site after the gardens are "transformed". Amazing!
M Torrance
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Is this what we can look forward to in the coming months - a daily PR piece containing whatever tenuous link they can think of?. The fact that the site has had 1000 hits is utterly meaningless. The office boy has checked the web stats and listed the IPs. It could of course be that a thousand international architects are champing at the bit to submit an on-budget transformational vision to enrich all our lives, or more likely a message saying "Dearest Sir, I have much interest in your fine square for sale, funds will transferred soonest - please ship to Nigeria" - This puff piece is clearly just another way to shoehorn a free advert in to the press. Malcolm is of course just doing his job, but I bet he can't believe his luck with the P&J falling at his feet. Please tell me we're not going to get this every day, followed by another circular argument in the comments page with the usual suspects?
Keith Grant
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Jock are you shaking your head in disbelief? Because I sure am, unbelievable!!
Sasha M
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I wonder whether Malcolm R. has ever been in Edinburgh and looked at the Gardens in Princes Street. What do they have there - a railway line, a very busy road, so what is Malcolm R.'s point? And what will happen to our "pleasure garden"? I suspect something resembling Cumbernauld Mark II.
dorothy bothwell
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Keith your point is well made. The P and J (or as it is known by the quality newspapers of Scotland) The Punch and Judy, does not do journalism, it does journalese.
dorothy bothwell
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I was also struck by the assertion that because UTG is surrounded by busy roads, it should be replaced with a street level square.It's up there with the idea that future prosperity can only be guaranteed through the same means - another evidence-free assertion bandied about by those who would destroy the gardens.
Richard Fraser
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Sasha, the competition is underway and as far as Aberdeen is concerned history is on the move. Many of the comments are just bile which in time will abate. They will have to get used to the idea of Aberdeen being the focus of international design attention, however much they want to maintain their dour and deid approach to life. Some of the names already declaring an interest are among Britain's best known and lauded architects.
Jock W
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I'll say this again: The World is being asked what the centre of Aberdeen should look like, Those of us who live in the city are not. It's a disgrace.
mike shepherd
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Jock, where can we find out about the lauded architects who have declared an interest? I'd be interested to find out. Is it the BD site? Thanks in advance
Richard Fraser
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The current generation who have stewarded the city so disgracefully over the past 50 years should welcome outside help. But Aberdonians will have the opportunity to provide input and feedback on the designs which will be put on display.
Jock W
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Richard, MR Consultancy have already flagged up the project to people like Norman Foster and Terry Farrell with positive reactions.
Jock W
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Jock I totally agree with you, interesting and exciting times ahead for Aberdeen. The opportunity here to showcase the great architecture of Simpson, Smith and Marshall McKenzie as a backdrop will inspire the best and most lauded architects not just in Britain but around the world. Those three gentlemen would be immensely proud today and I'm sure if they were around today would have loved to have had a crack at this.
Sasha M
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Jock, can't find any evidence of that anywhere. Again, do you have a source? I can't believe that Malcolm Reading would receive positive feedback from those two and not mention it in the above press release! Unless that's a separate story for tomorrow, but then how would you know? Where else has this been published? Thanks Jock
Richard Fraser
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Richard, he told me in person at a meeting yesterday afternoon. MR is very confident in the quality of the teams, some perhaps in collaboration with local firms on aspects of the design, who will throw their hat into the ring. He fully expects the interest generated to phenomenal. I certainly hope so.
Jock W
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Keith, it's all we've had in the past, so no reason to think the future will be any different. The P&J is just a PR machine for whoever has the most money.
M Torrance
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Gosh, you must be very important Jock, if Malcolm told you in person, but he hasn't thought it necessary to tell anyone else.
M Torrance
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Jock, "Norman Foster expresses interest" must be a headline all to itself. I look forward to reading it in the next few days, by which time I'm sure there will be many architects who have not ruled themselves out of this competition dragged into it as well. Subterranean architecture is red hot at the moment, apparently.
Richard Fraser
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You make a god point Richard, about subterranean architecture. So really, it's a design competition to design a roof that people can walk on, isn't it? Which is magically a garden too. No, sorry, a green oasis.
M Torrance
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Richard, your sneering tone disappoints but was not unexpected. Didn't Norman Foster design the business school for RGU? Surely, you should laud the sobriety of the P&J for such self-restraint. I think also you are confusing architecture and engineering, a common fault. Odd as it may seem, I am prepared to go along with MR's judgement on this matter.
Jock W
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What is the collective noun for Aberdonians? A GIRN would fit the bill, I think.
Jock W
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Jock, snide insults aside, how do you think Norman Foster (or a similarly lauded architect used to bringing in £300m projects for less than half that amount) will deal with the restriction that no construction can protrude above Union Square and obscure the view to HMT? Given Wood's parameters include walk-on, walk-off access, we know that this means any building, such as the "iconic arts centre" Acsef promise us, must be below the roof of the square/garden. I have to ask, Jock, because you know more about this than I do being acquainted with Malcolm Reading. So what's your take on that?
Richard Fraser
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Apols "Union Square" should of course read "Union St Bridge"... duh
Richard Fraser
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I'm sure John Maxwell Hutchinson is very much aware of this competition also, given his family and educational links with the city.
Sasha M
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I notice that the contracting authority for the design competition is ACGT Enterprises, the subidiary for the Aberdeen City Garden Trust Ltd. We know very little about the trust, even less about the subidiary. It's all very secret squirrel. Why was it necessary to form a subsidiary called ACGT Enterprises? Given my understanding of company law, what can they do that is any different from the parent company? Why are they running the design competition given that in none of the Council meetings I've been to was any approval given by councillors for them to do this?
mike shepherd
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Do most of our councillors know that ACGT Enterprises actually exists?
mike shepherd
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Who approved that the design competition should be authorised by ACGT Enterprises? The Council are not involved with this group, they are not an SPV under control of the Council as was originally planned.
mike shepherd
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Mike is that desparation I smell or the aroma of a deposit from a male bovine creature?
Sasha M
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No sasha. It's a question. Who approved that the design competition should be authorised by ACGT Enterprises?
mike shepherd
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This is listed on the public tenders web site for the design contest: SECTION I: CONTRACTING AUTHORITY/ENTITY NAME, ADDRESSES AND CONTACT POINT(S) Contact: Attn: Tel. E-mail: Fax ACGT Enterprises Ltd. 12 Bon Accord Square Competition Organisers
mike shepherd
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Well Mike given that that is the address of a certain legal firm in Aberdeen. You may want to take this up with the Law Society and go through a very expensive and damaging legal battle. Or alternatively you could respect the professionalism of the people involved and accept it is all above board.
Sasha M
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Richard, your sneering aside, that is something for these clever designers to solve. I know that the ideal is for the winning design team to have some local partnership. Perhaps you could proffer your advice as you seem to have a handle on the brief. MR Consultancy felt the brief sensible and achievable.
Jock W
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Jock - I think you've acknowledged on these pages that the brief is not achievable for £140 million pounds. Not in a month of Sundays. I believe you agreed with my suggestion that it would be at least double that and possibly as much as half a billion. Have you changed your mind or are we still thinking along the same lines?
Alasdair Johnston
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Alasdair, personally I do not think it can be done properly for that figure. That is a mere layman's opinion based on inductive reasoning (Scottish Parliament, eg) and assessing the scale and apparent complexity of the project. I would be afraid of cost-cutting on materials for instance. But others, more knowledgeable, are more confident. However, for the moment the design competition is the thing.
Jock W
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The question remains unanswered. Councillors approved a timetable whereby a company (SPV) under the control of the council would control the design competition. No decision was made by councillors to approve a third party, non-council organisation to run the competition. Yet, This is what seems to have happened. Are non-elected business organisations now taking decisions that were supposed to be taken by our elected representatives?
mike shepherd
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Not only are the public being ignored on the city square, it now seems that our elected representatives are losing control over the decision making process as to what happens with our public park.
mike shepherd
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Who made this decision?
mike shepherd
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Mike, I am very worried that the council no longer have any control of proceedings.
Alasdair Johnston
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Some of the councillors have said that too. The next council meeting next Wednesday was supposed to be all about council decisions on Union Terrace Gardens. Not any more. The only item mentioned on the agenda for the day is that Councillors get briefed the day before on the project, a briefing which isn't been made public. It seems our Council don't decide much these days, they just get told what's happening in private.
mike shepherd
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Jock, You know, absolutely, that this project will not cost a sjekl less than £350 million. Once started the costs will escalate and then we will either have to find the money by borrowing more, selling what few assets Aberdeen City still possesses and paying off the few staff that will remain. The council will also lose income from City Centre businesses closing down and disgruntled residents leaving. Me, I'll be taking up permanent residence in the band's caravan in Clatt.
Alasdair Johnston
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I'd like to invite you, Jock, to be my guest at the forthcoming ceilidh in the Treetops Hotel on Friday 24 June, hosted by the friends of Union terrace Gardens and featuring that rather tasty outfit Clachan Yell, "widely regarded as the best ceilidh band in the world, ever." Let me know if you can make it and I'll make sure there's a ticket on the door for you and you partner.
Alasdair Johnston
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More nonsensical hype by the Punch & Judy. Its not how mnay people that visit the web site that counts, its down to the amount of applicants that sign up... now I didn't read anything about that on this column and I am sure had there been then they would be shouting it from the roof tops... As it appears to me, to make a story and a poor one at that they are only commenting on the visits to the site which the mojority of people will be doing purely out of couriosity wheather you are for the destruction of UTG or against it. Just more ASCEF/ P&J propaganda
Lord Lucan
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There seems to be plenty of fully qualified senior civil engineers on here telling us how much an unknown design will cost i.e over £140m. Listen folks, stop posting your lies. Lets wait for the designs and for those who have experience in the area to evaluate whether they are viable or not. For the likes of Richard Fraser to come out and say it can't be done for £140m is utterly patronising and pure fabrication. YOU HAVE NO IDEA. And as for manners, funny how the anti CGP lot are quite happy to dig up personal details of supporters yet get all in a tiz when they get found out on here. As for Mike Shepherd, the public aren't being ignored. We elect councillors to take decisions on our behalf. Thats the democratic mandate elections provide. Thanks god for people with vision as opposed to those who would have us living in caves. It's people like Mike Shepherd and Richard Fraser who would have ensured there was no international airport in Dyce which would have resulted int he oil industry locating in Dundee, leaving Aberdeen a backwater reliant on fishing. Then again, judging by their attitudes maybe they would deem this preferarable. Low horizon, insular myopic views a vibrant, dynamic progressive city do not make. Getting quite excited about this now. Can't wait for the designs to be publicised. Then we can comment on reality, not the fanciful projection of paranoia and negative speculation from the likes of Mike Shpeherd and Richard Fraser. Why can't you wait for the designs to be published? Scared you will be shown for fools?
Concerned Resident
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WORLDWIDE INTEREST IN GETTING A CUT OF MULTI-MILLIONAIRE ABERDEEN PROPERTY SPECULATOR/PHILANTHROPIST'S DOSH - UNTRACEABLE NEW YORK WEB ACTIVITY REACHES CRESCENDO LEVELS - GOOGLE CRASHES
flannan isle
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Future Headlines: THE GRANITE CITY OPEN FOR BUSINESS"... After 5 years of the city centre being closed to all tranport the heart of the city eventually opens to reveal that a new quarry business has opened up.The once world renowned project to fullfill the visons and dreams of the millionaires of Aberdeen and some gullable local councilors has finally come to a halt due to running out of finances... but their spokesman, Conctivity Smitt has advised that it was always meant to be a quarry. He goes on to say that with having a railway line nearby was the bonus for transporting the Silver City's treasure far and wide....
Lord Lucan
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Oh Jock, really? do you Really believe that this competition will really resolve the many issues here? ''Aberdeen being the focus of international design attention'' you know fine well that is not the case.. look, i'm genuinely not saying this out of opposition to the csp now, please look at it as a standalone point. i've said before, the one good thing that might possibly have come out of this is an actual design competition that would have really explored a whole set of designs and prrinciples for the area, some maybe even differing to the paramaters set.. i do mean that, if that was the case, i would have shared your enthusiasam about the process and results, even if not buying into the csp concept. However the reality of this is, it's just a whole load of firms, punting off cvs and pqqs, and IF they get selected, only then will the tiny handful tender to address the brief, which is very set, and to produce a concept design, in less than two months, for something of this scale and complexity. I can appreciate sasha kidding himself on that architects are sketching up ideas for the utg as we speak, but you i trust know fine well that this is essentially a basic tender, albeit a pretty high profile and PR-ed one, for a scheme already in place. it's not the first such process, nor the last, nor any bigger nor any more significant than others, the fact that tens of thousands will express interest, and hudreds sumbit entryies is in no way whatsoever overwhelmimg..
Ved M
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Concerned Resident, calling me a liar is a bit unseemly to be honest. I'm not a quantity surveyor, architect or civil engineer but I'm basing my speculation on the £140 million pound quoted in the HFM feasibility study and the enormous list of excluded items contained within the same report. Is the report wrong? I also think the cost of other projects is a useful guide and we should also be guided by the advice of Neil Baxter who was clear that £140 million was utterly unrealistic. Please don't resort to accusing people of lying when we are simply using information produced, at our expense, to promote the feasibility of the City Square Project.
Alasdair Johnston
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Jock, I appeal to you as the sane voice of the CGP to have a quiet word in Concerned Resident's ear next time you see him and request that he be a bit more civil to his citizens.
Alasdair Johnston
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Jock, up there in Inverness, what is the collective Invernessian noun for a group of senior Highland Council managers, like yourself? Is it a 'self interest'?
flannan isle
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Jock, are you posting from Inverness on UTG while on lunchbreak or are you running up a senior mnager's (therefore very large) wage bill for Highland Council tax payers while double-acting with the hired acsefpropagandistt 'Sandy Milne/'Sasha Molyneux'?
flannan isle
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SAVE UTG - VOTE HOLYROOD LABOUR, VOTE ACC INDEPENDENT
flannan isle
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REPUBLICAN ROSIE CUNNINGHAM BOOKED INTO GORING HOTEL WITH KATE - Information has been received that Republican Rosie will, on behalf of Alex Salmond's SNP, join the Middletons at London's Goring Hotel, to celebrate the eve of their daughter's royal nuptials. The SNP's, hitherto -supposed-to-be a red hot republican, Ms Cunningham is said to have been given the massive suite next door to Kate and is looking forward to a right imminently-royal knees up. Republican Rosie has agreed, on the day prior to her royal wedding attendance, with Alex and Moira, to open a new outdoor lacrose court at Marlborough College, which teaches a proper set of values, and unveil a plaque with a record of her attendance at the prestigious event. After the royal wedding, it is reported that Republican Rosie will repair to Highgrove for the weekend, to coiffe organic English wine and to play a bit of croquet with both her friend, the kilted Duke of Rothesay, and his Duchess.
flannan isle
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SAVE UTG - VOTE HOLYROOD LABOUR AND HOLYROOD GEORGE GALLOWAY
flannan isle
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And there we go, game over for reasoned debate. S'later...
Keith Grant
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Hello Alasdair, thanks for your very kind offer. It is unclear whether or not we will be in Rome towards the end of June. If not I would delighted to attend. As to the funding, I am indeed highly sceptical but know very little about the costs although heavily involved some time ago in a large PFI scheme. It hasn't given me a feel for this one however. I hope we can adopt the level of attention to detail and the sheer craftsmanship that Italian design and engineering companies bring to similar projects.
Jock W
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Keith Grant, beware divide and rule. UTG can only be saved through political action at Holyrood and, more likely, at the Toon Hoose, with a council dominated by independents elected on a Save UTG ticket. You and Ved can 'debate' with the hired acsef propagandist/casusit 'Sandy Milne'/'Sasha Molyneux' and joust with 'Jock', the erudite Highland Council senior manager, TILL THE COWS COME HOME. Meanwhile the city square juggernaut, fuelled by £50 million squid, rolls on over you and past you. Man up, Mr Grant and just pass my posts with your scroll button. Got to go. Need some photies of orca whales off Canna, from the canoe.
flannan isle
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SAVE UTG - KEEP KEVIN STEWART OUT OF ABERDEEN CENTRAL
flannan isle
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Ved, MR gave a robust defence of keeping the process tight. He has had too much experience of highly creative designs with a shock factor, ending up costing millions more to engineer then not 'working' when completed. This process may have missed out on the Sydney Opera House but is pretty common to all the other high profile projects that have won awards in recent times. I would settle for something that did not necessarily have the 'wow' factor but looked classy and functioned as intended.
Jock W
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Concerned resident, I reckon that the public you accuse of posting 'lies' would be astonished to find out who it is that is writing this nonsense. Perhaps some circumspection is called for. I noticed you never answered my questions about ACGT Enterprises or who actually approved that a non-council body should have authorised the design competition. If the councillors agreed this in chambers, I certainly never noticed.
mike shepherd
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Heavy stuff. On a lighter note, apparently this questioned was asked on local radio. "Yesterday I launched my design for the City Gardens Project. Green felt tip seems to be OK with you for the sketches, but what about the model?" Options: o Paper Mache o Lego o fuzzy felts
mike shepherd
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Concerned Resident, you accuse me of lies regarding the £140m estimate. My source for saying the cost will be above £140m is the HFM feasability study which lists 25 exclusions with cost implications. Additionally the £140m estimate excludes finish and fit out. So your meltdown is for nothing - I'm happy to accept your apology should you be mature enough to recognise that I don't lie about things I've researched. I'm also saddened that of those who support the CSP, there is only one - Jock W - apparently capable of being reasonable and addressing questions raised, rather than resorting to the insults and outright slander you post.
Richard Fraser
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An Aberdonian born and bred but having emigrated to Inverurie in 2005 I cannot for the life of me understand why Aberdeen wants to spend a shedload of money defacing Union Terrace Gardens other than to satisfy the desire of a multi millionaire benefactor. If the benefactor was willing to pay for it all then I might understand the Aberdonian desire to not look a gift horse in the mouth.
Alan Bush
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Ved let me correct you on one point. At no time have I mentioned anyone architect, designer or otherwise preparing even a sketch on the back of a fag packet let alone a fully costed set of construction drawings currently at revision 0. To even suggest that is naive and just plain stupid.
Sasha M
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Yes, Concerned you're absolutley right. The oil industry would not have happened if the likes of Mike and Richard were peddling their lies. It's normal folks, folks who go to the bingo, folks who are normal folks. Folks in general. Folks that think you are right. Folks that are going to tell you the truth. Not lies. Well done another stupid own goal.
harvey freshwater
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Flannan- A Poundland of councillors?
harvey freshwater
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Concerned Resident there was never any fear of the Oil Industry being located in Dundee. The Mike's and Richard's of this world had they been around then wouldn't have made a jot of difference. One of the main reasons for it being located here is the influence of power from historical sources. If you want check out the history of Royal Dutch Shell and the Mexican Eagle Petroleum Company and you'll be surprised what local influences you'll find from years gone by.
Sasha M
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sasha, thanks for clarifying that you are neither naive nor stupid.. i did not think you'd suggest, but you do get carried away with the competition talk. if you read my comment again, you will see it was well intended. i won't get into one of your angry endless back-and-forths of name-calling, that leads nowhere, and i'm not into that.
Ved M
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If anyone cares to look at recent history in the North East, study the case of the proposed Scanitro ammonia plant for Peterhead 1973. You will find significant similarities with the current unsavoury nonsense.
harvey freshwater
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Ved I appreciate your comment was well intended and your assumption that this is a glorified tender however the mistakes of the past dictate that this is the way forward. The days of architects and designers having free reign on projects such as these, as you advocate,have in the past led to over budget, late and inferior end results that doen't benefit anybody. Whether this can be done within the parameters set let's just wait and see.
Sasha M
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Sasha, I was only 14 when the oil industry started in Aberdeen, but I started work in 1981 planning infill wells on the Forties Field and I'm still working helping to improve recovery from North Sea fields and elsewhere. Also in the 1980's I helped organise the campaign against the plan to build a multi-storey car park in Union Terrace Gardens, a campaign which was succesful. I am very proud to have had the chance to contribute to the local economy and also help preserve the city's heritage. I am also in an excellent position to judge the idea that the city square is needed to anchor the energy industry in Aberdeen as total moonshine.
mike shepherd
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I also ran another campaign in the 80s to stop the construction of the Denburn dual carriageway. Even back then, it was clearly going to be a planning folly, but the usual familar nonsense was trotted out to justify it. It was built so that Union Street could be pedestrianised and to accommodate traffic in a north-south direction. Never happened of course and almost 30 years later it must be the most underused dual carriageway in the country. Cost the council a lot of money that one did. The Denburn seems to be the repository of many of Aberdeen's planning disasters, the destruction of the Triple Kirks, the road and now the proposed six acre concrete slab. Will the council never learn?
mike shepherd
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Does creating this CSP mean that the only heritage we leave to future generations, is just another large scale Shopping Mall. Nearly the same as Union Square, along with Bon Accord and Trinity. If this is all you can leave them, what a disappointment for them. Not even great granite buildings to be proud of, just boring old concrete, which will not last too long. Not on any comparison to the great buildings on Union Terrace or Union Street. A blight in the middle of Union Street instead. Still Aberdeen is a rich city, John Stewart does not mind spending the Common good fund, even though the lawyers are telling him that is more than likely illegal.
minnie mo
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Phenomenal, Jock? Wasn’t that was the quote attributed to Larry Speck, who it turns out knew nothing of the details of this or the PVA project, and was in fact referring to the effects of regenerating urban unused sites. As someone it was claimed was a supporter, I wonder if he’ll be one of the many international designers bidding for it? CR – can’t be done for £140m – well, when I say I doubt it can be done for £140m, I base it on the feasibility study, which budgeted £140m, OH, and 25 exclusions. So THEY don’t think it can be done for £140m. There were some very very interesting discussions in Aberdeen today about the future of this location. None of them mentioning a garden, it has to be said. I have to say that beyond Aberdeen the media interest in this ‘exciting prospect’ to “create a buzz about Aberdeen” is, well, isn’t.
Michael Hodgson
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So Mike what you're basically saying is you're a serial complainer. Only joking couldn't resist that one sorry. I too have worked in the Oil industry all my life starting in 1979 and was a parochial insular Aiberdonian for a long time but always had the hankering to travel. Now I've been on Drillships in Brazil when they've set world records for deep water drilling, land rigs in the jungles of Chad drilling courtesy of the world bank, the usual North Sea stuff here and in Norway, the Saudi deserts and the Persian gulf on Jackups and have considered myself very lucky to have had the priviledge. All those travels gave me the opportunity to see other cities, countries and interact with the people on multiple levels that gave me a great perspective on what we back home should be doing. This changed my thinking about Aberdeen and made me appreciate it more but also made me appreciate that we need to keep moving and improving to compete in the big bad world out there.
Sasha M
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Sasha your post is ample demonstration of why the arguments put about in favour of the CSP have no merit. All of the places you mention have one thing in common - drilling. Without oil, you would not have visited those places - irrespective of the attractions of their city centres. Anchoring the energy industry in Aberdeen is about more than the city centre, and certainly about more than the CSP.
Richard Fraser
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Richard, please accept my apologies for only giving you a small cross section of the places I've visited and worked. If you've not done the life I suppose it is very difficult to understand that you see a lot more than drilling believe me. Do you think everyone that works on a drilling rig just lives local to the oil field? I can tell you now that is definitely not the case. If you've sat watching a film about Italian Americans in the company of a Croatian, a Mexican, a Dutchman, an Australian, a Frenchman, a Norwegian one other Scotsman, 4 Indians and 2 Saudi's it really is a mind broading experience.
Sasha M
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The point remains Sasha. Did you go to Brazil because of the city square, or because of the oil industry you work in? Did you go to Chad, for their garden with subterranean space, or for the oil industry? Of the places you have visited NOT because of the oil industry was it their city squares that attracted you, or something else?
Michael Hodgson
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Michael you've completely missed the point, whether the oil industry took me there or not is completely irrelevant. It's what you observe, experience and interact with when you get there is what counts. The chance to see other things and meet other people and cultures has nothing to do with digging a hole in the ground. I suggest you look out your passport and get some flight tickets before you go on a rant again.
Sasha M
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Sasha, sorry, the point was that you went to places because of oil and not because of their city centre attractions. With respect to your condescending comment that it's difficult for me to understand your travels it's very likely that my time overseas amounts to a deal more than yours in terms of both years and miles, but I've no wish to descend into some playground contest with you. Suffice to say your opinion is woefully misplaced, Sasha. It would have been easy enough to ask whether I've travelled much but you prefer to assume - something you seem to do rather a lot, rather than bothering to check. The point that your interaction with other cultures appears, by your own admission, to have been driven by your job, tells us that it is the job that took you to these locations and not the fact that they had any particular attractions on offer. So you are, in essence, saying that Aberdeen having a city square would be utterly pointless, but anyone coming here would have their mind expanded by meeting all the wonderful folk. A fair enough point but one that I'm surprised you're making.
Richard Fraser
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@Michael Hodgson, sorry to let some light into your cave, but yesterday I was in the company of a group of young professionals whose enthusiasm for the project was giddying, to the point I was almost resentful. There is a better Aberdeen than yours out there and it is on the move. Just because you are sober does not mean that there will be no more cakes and ale.
Jock W
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"Didn't Norman Foster design the business school for RGU" The building in question was created to house their Business School and their Library. The floors were not strong enough to hold the volume of books held by ... a Library. Can we expect the floors of the replacement Denburn Car Park to be unable to bear the weight of vehicles?
John Anthony
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Jock, did you give them lollipops?
Philip Thompson
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Ironic Jock. That same day I was in the company of a group of young professionals who showed absolutely no support for the project whatsoever. I then spent some time canvassing the people of Aberdeen to discover enormous pride in the city, an understanding that there are areas to improve, and bewilderment that this project is still stumbling on, since it demonstrates no benefit at all.
Michael Hodgson
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@Jock, There is a better Aberdeen on the way, and this monstrosity has no place in it. The following day I attended a chamber of commerce event, where some members of the chamber and some members of acsef talked with joy about the wonderful new conference centre we should build in Union Terrace gardens, while the majority of the audience shook their heads in disbelief.
Michael Hodgson
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