Fascinated by the lives of others, George R Mitchell gets under the skin of a country, often uncovering the dark corners of culture, politics and people. He now has 25 years of off-grid travel and 85 countries under his belt, and he’s in no mood to stop just yet…
Mr Daoud Shihab is the chief spokesman for Islamic Jihad in the Gaza Strip. They are one of the many groups fighting what they call the “Israeli occupation of Palestine”.
The UK, US and many other countries class them as a terrorist organisation. Islamic Jihad have claimed responsibility for numerous suicide bombings and attacks in Israel over the years that have resulted in the deaths of many Israelis, soldiers and civilians. Targets have included a shopping mall, restaurant, bakery, market and public transport.
We met in a hotel in Gaza with my fixer Rami as our interpreter. Mr Shihab looked nothing like what we would think of as an Islamic Jihadist. For sure, Islamic Jihad have armed, masked paramilitary fighters, but Mr Shihab was dressed in western clothing. With no masked men looking down at me, or guns and shells lying around, I felt much more confident, so therefore pushed harder with my questions.
George Mitchell: “Your organisation, Islamic Jihad, does it have any connection to ISIS?”
Daoud Shihab: “No, we have no connection to ISIS. We reject ISIS, we reject the killing of innocent people.”
GM: “But the firing of rockets into Israel, that has killed innocent Jewish people…”
DS: “We are simply defending ourselves….”
GM: “When Palestinian children in Gaza have died due to Israeli fire, I think there is no justification for that. But your rockets have also killed innocent Jews. How do you justify that?”
DS: “We are just defending ourselves. If there are no attacks from Israel, then for sure there will be no rockets from Gaza.”
GM: “But your rockets are fired indiscriminately into Jewish towns. That’s not defence against the Israeli army. If a Jewish civilian, say a child, is killed, is that justified?”
DS: “If the world stops Israel killing us then there will be no rockets fired from Gaza.”
GM: “Please just answer the question. Is it acceptable that say, a Jewish child, dies from a rocket fired from Gaza?”
This was getting heated. At the time I didn’t actually realise it, but when I played back the interview recording, I could hear Mr Shihab jabbing his finger on to the glass coffee table as he answered: “We never target civilians.”
GM: “Rockets and shells cost a lot of money, where does the money come from?”
DS: “We have only handmade rockets, it’s not professional international weapons.”
GM: “But where does the money come from?”
I didn’t get a straight answer.
GM: “Israel claims that groups in Gaza store rockets and weapons inside mosques. Is this true?”
DS: “That’s not true. I can take you to any mosque and you will find no rockets there.”
GM: “So, just to clarify, Islamic Jihad do not put weapons inside mosques?”
DS: “Never. It’s haram to do this.”
GM: “Do you ever put rockets in or around schools?”
DS: “No, it’s not true.”
GM: “In Jerusalem on Friday, after prayers, there are often attacks in the streets. On numerous occasions, Palestinians have attacked Jewish civilians. Is this acceptable to you?”
DS: “If the result is real civilian people hurt, we are sorry for that. But these people you talk about, they are settlers.”
GM: “But a settler, as you call him, he or she is also a civilian.”
DS: “No, a settler is not a civilian.”
GM: “How about a Jewish child in its pram? I wrote about this in my book, a car ramming in Jerusalem. The child died. Your views on this?”
DS: “We reject that. It’s wrong.”
GM: “But what if that child is a ‘settler’ child? It’s also wrong? Or acceptable?” I knew I was pushing him, and he knew I was pushing him.
DS: “….it’s wrong. We believe that we should keep the civilians away. We are ready to stop firing all rockets from Gaza, but we need it from the Israelis to stop the attacks from the sea, the land, the sky. We want peace with Israel. Since 2014 there have been no Islamic Jihad rockets fired into Israel. From others yes, but not us. But Israel still kills Palestinians, but we have not made any kind of reaction.”
GM: “If Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu was sat here, with no cameras, just the two of you, and he said to you, ‘OK, let’s solve this problem between us,’ what would your compromise be to him?”
DS: “I would never sit and talk with Netanyahu. He is a criminal.”
GM: “And I’m sure he thinks of you as a terrorist. Let me ask you, in your opinion, does Israel have a right to exist in any shape or form?”
DS: “Does Israel recognise our rights? I am on the poor side, Israel is the strong one. Before I consider recognising Israel, I need to get my rights. If you want me to recognise your rights, you must first recognise mine. I’m here on this land, for thousands of years, then Israel came to occupy and kicked us out of our homes.”
GM: “So, Israel does not have a right to exist?”
DS: “Most Palestinians say no to a two-state solution. We want all our land back.”
GM: “So if you want that, and you won’t talk, how do you achieve this? You can’t beat Israel with guns, they are too big, too powerful. Do you seriously believe that you can defeat Israel?”
DS: “There is no sustainable occupation. We also don’t want a military conflict, we know they are strong, supported by USA, no one supports us. But we will never lose our right. One day the world will change.”
GM: “Does your organisation teach hate? Against Jews or the west?”
DS: “No, never. You are here in Gaza, you are welcome. We don’t see the Jewish religion as an enemy. The problem is not with Jews, the problem is with Israeli occupation. We will fight anyone who occupies our land. We fought your country when you occupied our land, but now we have no problems with Britain.”
GM: “So, I’m safe here in Gaza?”
DS: “Yes, of course. No one will cause you harm.”
GM: “I’d guess that Israel doesn’t like you very much… do you ever worry for your life?” I paused for a second and then asked: “Why are you still alive?” We both shared a laugh at this point.
DS: “If I was in the West Bank, you’d find me either dead or in an Israeli jail.”
GM: “So you can never go to the West Bank?”
DS: “No.”
GM: “Israel has drones, they can spot where you are, maybe they know that we are here talking right now…”
DS: “There is a red line in Gaza Israel will never pass, they know if they killed the leaders the situation will be war.”
I’d taken up 45 minutes of this busy man’s time. We stood and shook hands as Rami took our photo. I thanked Mr Shihab for his time and he replied: “You’re welcome. Next time you come, I invite you to my home, you are most welcome.”
Alongside last week’s interview with the armed masked men and my still to come columns on Gaza, I’ll leave it up to you, the reader, to decide what you think.
I would be willing to meet with Mr Shihab again. I have more questions for him. I would also take up his offer to visit his home. Maybe you disagree with that decision, but the only way to get to really know someone and where they are coming from is to talk with them. I’ll talk to anyone from any side of any argument. As the old saying goes, don’t judge another man until you’ve walked a mile in his shoes.
At the end of the day, after all the killing and bloodshed, most conflicts have ended because people finally sat down and talked. In Israel/Palestine, how many more innocents have to die before people on both sides sit down, talk, listen and compromise?
Sadly, the answer is probably many, many more.
NEXT WEEK: Electricity, sewage, landfill… Gaza is crumbling