Moves to address violence and aggression in schools were overshadowed after a Moray Council meeting descended into chaos and confusion.
Technical difficulties added to the problems during the education, children and leisure services committee on Tuesday.
Members were discussing a follow-up report after figures showed a huge rise in incidents in schools.
Independent councillor for Speyside Glenlivet Derek Ross called for the committee to write to the Scottish Government calling for a reduction in class sizes to 20.
‘An attempt to stifle debate’
The impact he said would help improve classroom behaviour.
But monitoring officer Alasdair McEachan said the move was incompetent.
He felt there was not enough information in the papers for councillors to make a decision on the 20 pupil figure.
With the electronic voting system out of action, chairwoman Kathleen Robertson took a show of hands to see if members had enough data before them.
Eight felt they did not, while three said they did.
That prompted Mr Ross and councillors Marc Macrae and Sandy Keith to declare their dissent.
Fochabers Lhanbryde Conservative councillor Mr Macrae called the move “an attempt to stifle debate”.
He highlighted that previous Labour and SNP governments had it in their manifestos on reducing classroom figures.
Hybrid meeting system broken
And it was a requirement for practical classes such as science and home economics.
Also Mr Ross said he had “lost confidence” in the way the committee operated.
He added: “Twenty’s plenty has been on the table for so long. Twenty is not a number that’s been plucked out of the air, it’s been around for many many years.”
Then SNP councillor for Elgin South Graham Leadbitter called for the council to write to the Chancellor of the Exchequer as well, citing issues around financing.
Several attempts were made by Ms Robertson to come up with a compromise to satisfy all concerns raised.
And there were three breaks in proceedings to try to agree a way forward.
However, following information brought up during the hour-long discussions, it was felt the call for a 20 pupil limit was not incompetent.
Ms Robertson then revoked the earlier show of hands on whether councillors had enough information on class numbers.
‘A waste of time’
And Mr Ross’s motion was allowed to stand.
SNP member for Forres Scott Lawrence put forward an amendment to write to cabinet secretary Jenny Gilruth to give consideration to class sizes in terms of classroom behaviour.
He said: “No one is arguing there is a connection between antisocial behaviour and class sizes.”
Mr Lawrence added the Scottish Government was dealing with behaviour in schools by addressing child poverty.
His amendment was voted through by nine votes to three.
However, Elgin South Labour councillor John Divers was unable to take part in the discussion or either vote.
With the council’s hybrid meeting system not working he had to join through Teams.
But he was unable to hear most of the debate and felt he had to abstain.
Mr Divers said the meeting for him had been “a waste of time”.
Public unable to watch
And members of the public were unable to tune in because the live webcast system was also broken.
Members did note the action plan put together by officers to come up with ways to address behaviour in schools.
And for the issue to be taken forward with a multi-agency approach.
They also agreed for it to go to the Community Planning Partnership (CPP) board as a matter of urgency.
And for a more detailed report to come back to the education committee, and to the board’s meeting in May.
The CPP includes representatives from the NHS, police, fire service, UHI Moray and the third sector.
Between April and October 2023 a total of 1,647 violent or aggressive incidents in Moray schools were recorded.
That compares with 537 over the same period the previous year – an increase of 206%. And equivalent to 86 incidents a week or 17 a day.
Figures relate to pupils being aggressive and violent towards staff.
At the time secondary school representative Susan Slater called the numbers “horrific”.
Conversation